Transcript
WEBVTT
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If you watch anyone close enough, you're going to find a contradiction which is going to undo and unpack.
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But what the new convert needs to understand and what Moses needs to understand and we will read that he did understand that is that there is grace, that your perfection is actually made in you striving for perfection, it's in the progress of.
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So when I listen to people do the interview and they try to compare Christianity as a whole with the performance of people, it's like no, you're missing it.
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Welcome to the Call by God podcast with Adney Godin and myself, nixon Sylvain.
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This show is about dialogues of biblical characters and testimonies of Christians who submitted to the will of God.
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Each week we bring on one guest so that they can share their story of how they were called by God.
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I hope this show inspires you.
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Enjoy Hello and welcome world to the Call by God.
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I hope this show inspires you.
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Enjoy Hello and welcome world to the Call by God podcast.
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I'm yours truly brother Nick, and I'm here with my co-host, sister Adni Godin, and we have a special guest by the name of brother Ray Gosa.
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He's not even a special guest, he's a friend to the show.
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How y'all doing on this blessed day?
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I'm blessed, blessed.
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How are you, nick?
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I'm blessed.
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I'm blessed, adni, why you got that?
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Look on your face?
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Because I was waiting for him to say something.
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I'm doing amazing.
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Y'all Just keep me in prayer.
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I'm going to a funeral Once we're done.
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This lady lost her only child.
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She's not a member of the body.
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Oh no.
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So the Lord laid it on my heart Go, show her what you know a child of God does.
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I may not know you, but I'm here to encourage you.
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Type situation, and then we're going to watch the play right afterwards.
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Right, they recorded the play I was in, so oh, really.
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Yeah, I'm going to go see the play.
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Just sit down and just watch.
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Ray, did you know that Adney played in this Jesus play Like at Bold the?
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Christ, Church of Christ.
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I mean, and here you're calling me the special guest.
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I mean I just want her to sign one of my double chins, that's it and we'll be good.
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And for those that are listening, that was a pre-recorded joke Not to be taken out of context in any sort of way.
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It's a family show.
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But you know you should step it up, Ray.
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You subbed the dust.
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So yeah, special guest Adney, you know she is with Jesus, literally, and talking about Jesus, and it's great.
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I have nothing more to say.
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All right, Nick, come on, You're going to have to steer this ship because we're going to start just floating off into the third heaven here.
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Yeah, so this is a fellowship.
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The last time we were on here, we discussed Aaron, and that's what this episode is about.
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It's about Aaron.
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We discussed how Aaron he is the siblings of Miriam and Moses, and we also talked about how Aaron was called.
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You know, moses was talking to God, having a back and forth conversation with God, and God told Moses hey, you know what about your brother Aaron?
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So Aaron was called into ministry and he was Moses'-hand man, not only a sibling, but his right-hand man, and both of them went before Pharaoh and Aaron was the spokesperson.
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He was the spokesperson, both he and Moses.
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And then, of course, moses was.
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So when the children of God got delivered, they was wandering in the wilderness and by the mountain and Moses had, you know, had a discussion, went up to the mountain and was having a dialogue with God, and then they doing miraculous things and, of course, the children of Israel decided that they wanted to build a calf.
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We talked about this on part one, because Aaron, the leader, aaron, was in their presence and the people told them hey, let's build the cap.
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And we're going to say that these are the gods that delivered us out of the hand of Pharaoh in Egypt and Exodus 32, verse 19 and 22.
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This is where Moses came down and Moses is like what in the world is going on?
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So, adney, if you will, can you go ahead and read it, and then we're just going to have a dialogue.
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What happened, right?
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I'm sure the people want to know, like what happened after Aaron and the people built the golden calf and burned it.
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Then he ground it into powder, threw it into the water and forced the people to drink it.
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Finally, he turned to Aaron and demanded what did these people do to make you bring such terrible sin upon them?
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Don't get upset, my Lord.
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Hold on, don't get upset, my Lord.
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Aaron replied you yourself know how evil these people are.
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They said to me make us gods who will lead us.
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We don't know what happened to this fellow Moses who brought us here from the land of Egypt.
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So I told them whoever has gold jewelry, take it off.
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When they brought it to me, I simply threw it into the fire, and out came this calf.
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When they brought it to me, I simply threw it into the fire and out came this calf.
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And Moses saw that Aaron had let the people get completely out of control, much to the amusement of their enemies.
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So he stood at the entrance of the camp and shouted all of you who are on the Lord's side, come here and join me.
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And all the Levites gathered around him.
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Amen, amen and Ray, what are your thoughts on some of the things that Aaron did when Moses confronted Aaron?
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You know, there's, of course, always a lot to unpack.
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I mean being, last time we spoke it was like all right, well, what were we?
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What was people supposed to do?
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Like how would we be any different?
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How long will we be able to stay in idle, not knowing what's going on?
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We're like we're in the woods, like it's turned into a Blair witch project, which is an old movie reference, and now it's like all right, so we have to do something right, or do we just sit here?
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You know, does Moses need help?
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We don't know.
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So they go back to their old ways, and it's so important.
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What's coming to me is that, especially let's take it from a new convert perspective the new convert has not been able to walk with God yet.
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They don't know what that looks like.
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So all they have is just their old tendencies, all they have and all they know.
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Maybe it's in good faith, Maybe it's coming from a good place, it's just wrongly utilized.
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It's like that energy that was for your previous life and now that you've come out of Pharaoh's house, you've gone through the water and now, here you are, don't stand idly by.
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So, from a ministerial standpoint, we, as the church, we have to really understand that there are babes in Christ for a reason and they will easily be led astray because they can find the good in the old ways, even though it is extremely opposed to their new way of life.
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So I believe number one this is a call for assignment of the mature Christian to take the young babes under their arms and guide them.
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Understand that some people they don't know what to do on Friday night after becoming saved If there's nothing going on at the church like what do you do what you usually do?
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What do you do what you usually do?
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They don't know.
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Are there better radio stations or things to watch or people to be around after becoming saved?
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Because if not, that golden calf is going to just miraculously show up out of nowhere and you're not even going to know how you did it.
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And this is also the danger of the parts of tradition, because you can be hardwired for some things and there needs to be some sort of familiarity with a protocol and what tradition will do is you won't even question it.
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You're just like, well, of course we're going to do this, like, of course I'm still going to.
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You know, go on certain websites and I'm just looking and and it's like, oh, I'm just going to go over a friend's house, so yeah, I know it's a little late, but and then, like oops, I slipped.
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And well, okay, yeah, she fell in.
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Okay, yeah, the, the calf just raised all by itself.
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I had nothing to do with that.
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You know how these people are, aka, you know what world we live in, you know what society is like.
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So it's one thing to give Aaron a pass and it's another thing to say, well, moses, what were your instructions?
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Now, granted, maybe you didn't have instructions because you don't know what's going on.
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But at the same time, it's like there has to be a balance, because I believe that sometimes the church does a lot of damage in the way they deal with people, especially when found in error or, in this case, found with Aaron.
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We can discourage them.
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Now, at this point in time in the scriptures yeah, the people had a different type of fabric about them they can hear a hard message.
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We, on the other hand, this day, we are increasingly becoming more sensitive to how things are being put and, yes, truth and love, but that needs to have its evolution.
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That's saying that we start to tolerate, to the point of conforming and compromising our position, but having a special way of communicating effectively.
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Now here we see in Scripture that, yeah, the people did receive it.
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It's like well, what else are you going to do?
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You made us drink our own, you know altar.
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So, yeah, that's not happening.
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But had there been other choices, how many would have, you know, chosen the side of God, which is the challenge that we are faced with.
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I've seen so many times where good people were ran away by religious people and, honestly, I was one of them.
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Now, I may not have been one-on-one with them, but the way I would go about teaching it's like well, listen, can you be skilled enough to land with that person while also giving the meat to the more seasoned person?
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So here we're seeing a I guess you can call it a HR problem, human resources issue.
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Like, how do you deal with effective discipline?
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Oh, it can be harsh and you can get your point across.
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But was it effective here?
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Yeah, I mean it was, but for us we got to make sure that we don't come unglued and just throw down the whole tablet.
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You know, did Moses go overboard with destroying the calf?
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You know grinding up and in the water and making the people drink it.
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I mean, I mean I don't know, I don't know, like maybe I'm not sure that's what God told him or that's just how Moses gets when he gets in his bag, like when he gets mad.
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You go, you don't make you do all of that, but I think that's something to take away from just this part of it.
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But you also see that Aaron blames the people.
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He doesn't take any responsibility, which is scary, because it's kind of a narcissistic tendency to say, oh well, look what they made me do.
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And you know, these are the same people that will say, oh, you make me mad.
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See you mad, you can become mad.
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You can choose to be mad after what they say, or you can govern yourself and say listen, society does not dictate a person's actions.
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I heard this quote and I'll never forget it.
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I forgot who said it, but it was something like said it, but it was something like in our final day, we will not be judged on what we believe you, you will be judged on what you knew.
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Aaron, what did you know?
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I know that's what you believe, but you knew better.
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So that's that's where you'll be judged.
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So that's where you'll be judged.
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I'm loving that you brought it in this angle, because one thing we have to realize as Christians we're going to have new converts.
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They do have a past and in them having a past, we have to start teaching them to release the past, to walk in the newness of life.
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That's called having a relationship right.
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We, in the body, we've baptized without establishing relationship.
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You're baptizing people and you don't even know who they are.
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They don't even know who you are.
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I'm going to take us to New Testament.
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Our Lord and Savior had relationship with people and in him having a relationship with him, they became his disciples, became his disciples.
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That's the pattern that we have to have today.
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So, moses, these people, whether we believe it or not, they didn't know Moses.
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Think about it.
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They said this fellow, moses, this fellow like I don't know that man, but they knew Aaron.
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Aaron knows their past.
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Aaron knows where they come from, because Aaron was a part of that group, hence why it was so easy for him to say to them give me your earrings.
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And here comes this golden calf, because that's what they're accustomed to.
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If you're shackled to bondage, you're going to always remain shackled to bondage Once you become free.
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You have to know that you are free.
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If you don't know that you're free, you're going to continue operating in the shackles.
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Hence Juneteenth Right, we have a set of people and I tell people all the time American history is not Adney's history.
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Adney's history is Haitian history.
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But when I read about, you know how people were free.
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But people in Texas didn't even know it was free.
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They were still.
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They were still enslaved.
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These people were still enslaved to the gods of the Egyptians.
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These people were still enslaved to the gods of the Egyptians.
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So, because they were still enslaved to the gods of the Egyptians and they had no relationship with Moses, make us God.
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They saw everything that God did.
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They saw it.
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They saw it hands down.
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They saw how God told them to put the blood and the death angel pass.
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They saw the frogs.
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They saw the gnat.
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They saw all of that, all of those wonders.
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But again, if you don't know that you're free, you're going to remain in bondage, you're going to remain shackled to Egypt.
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And they did not realize that they were free.
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And I love how you said that Aaron didn't take responsibility.
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Out of everyone, aaron should have been, because half the stuff was done by him.
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He was the mouthpiece, like God used you to talk, since your brother say he couldn't do it.
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So how you.
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If anybody had a relationship with Moses, it should have been you saying wait a minute, hold up, he, he's talking to God.
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Let's be patient.
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But again, if you don't recognize that you're free, you're going to remain in bondage.
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Let's bring it to modern day.
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When we are going out to save souls, we have to establish relationship.
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We have to teach them Jesus, because it's not about teaching them the church, it's about teaching them Christ and him crucified.
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It's about getting them into a relationship with Christ before we dip them in the water, because what happens is oh my goodness, I don't have to live this lifestyle.
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I may struggle with it, but because I love God, I don't have to be in bondage to it, and that's what we have to get to y'all.
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And I'm learning this more now than ever.
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I was taught church.
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Now I'm learning.
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I am part of the church.
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I'm a flawed individual, I sin, but learning Jesus and him crucified and how I have to let this mind be in me, which was also in Christ Jesus.
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They didn't have the mind of God, so did we expect anything less from the children of Israel.
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No, because, if we're honest, many of us have been enslaved to our path.
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Some of us we've been freed.
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I'm just saying.
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Amen, amen, yeah.
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Yeah, both of you guys brought us some really great points.
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But what I want to say, just to add on to what y'all said I like how y'all brought up the new converts thing, but for me it was God called Aaron into, you know, a position of high priest in Exodus, chapter 28.
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So not only that, he was Moses' right hand man, but here's a calling, and we know what the priests in that day stood for.
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The priests were like a mediator between God and the people.
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They're the ones that went before God and they sacrificed on behalf of the people when they committed such sins.
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So when I think about those things Aaron being a high priest and then we fast forward to Exodus 32, you would think, as a leader, as the high priest, someone who goes before God on behalf of the people, that he would know better.
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So the Bible says, for what much is given, more is required.
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Because, a leader, you expect them to have some kind of spiritual maturity, right?
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Because we know the children of Israel, we could say that, okay, they don't know better.
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All they knew was being in bondage, mentally and physically, when they were in Egypt.
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And here it is they're in the wilderness.
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They tell an errand, to build them a golden cap.
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And this is where the leadership part comes in, because even when Moses came down, moses specifically said in 21, verse 21 of chapter 32, what did these people do to you?
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That's like a person that's weak converting a person that's strong.
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You would think that they ought to know better, right?
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So here's again.
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These people are not high priests, they're just regular, they're sheep.
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They're sheep.
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And here's a leader that has a high position, and Moses confronted Aaron and say man, what these people did to you, what these people, it's equivalent to like a seasoned Christian.
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And that's why I say I like the fact that y'all brought up a new convert, because the new converts, they don't know any better.
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It takes time, it takes pruning, it takes seasons for them to grow into maturity.
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So, yeah, new converts, they're going to do a lot of things and you know, we got to work with them, be patient with them.
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We got to pray with them, have Bible studies with them and show them the way to build a relationship with Christ.
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But it's equivalent to a new convert, a new convert causing a seasoned Christian to fall short, as though the seasoned Christian is a new convert, right?
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So the new convert could say hey, man, you know I'm used to doing this.
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And then the leader could say yeah, you know what You're right, let's go ahead and do it.
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So you would think that the seasoned Christian would know better, and that's why I'm seeing this.
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And Aaron replied, even unto Moses, and said look, moses, you know how prone these people have, a tendency to sin.
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They love evil.
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He said these people are prone to evil, to doing evil Again.
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It goes back to saying that Aaron, he should have known better.
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And I like the thought that Moses, he confronted Aaron because you need leaders like that.
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You need leaders that when a leader, another leader, is in error, you need another leader to rebuke a leader in love, because we know that open rebuke is better than secret love.
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Because imagine you have this leader, moses, and this leader, aaron, and he notices Aaron build a golden cap and he just looks side-eyed like he didn't see nothing, like I see it, but I didn't see it.
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Now, keep in mind, moses just had a conversation with God.
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So imagine, picture a scenery where Moses come down.
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He said yeah, I see it, but I don't see it after having a conversation with God.
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But it shows you that Moses was willing to confront his brother, his high priest, and said like dude, like you, good, like what happened to you, we did all this miraculous things with God and here you are, you building a golden cap.
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You took heed, you listened to these stiff neck individuals and you did exactly what they wanted you to do.
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You didn't have to do that.
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So this is where his leadership shoes, his leadership capture the kid, kick in and he should have, kind of like, rebuked the people and properly instruct them about the ordinance of the Lord.
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Okay, and I'm going to say this again Aaron was in bondage.
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Just because you're elevated to leadership does not know that you know how to govern the office that you have been given.
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You can be convinced and not convicted.
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Convinced and not convicted.
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What Aaron showed was like he was convinced.
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He didn't show a conviction in trusting God, my spiritual father, clyde Ruzon.
