176. Biblical Dialogue of Dinah, Part 1

This concept of men thinking it's okay to test drive the vehicle before purchasing. It is not a new concept, even though a lot of men don't even understand and realize who they are in God, who they really are in Christ, because they don't have a relationship with them. That mindset has been embedded in man since the beginning.

Because we're reading it here in Genesis Welcome to the Call by God podcast with Adne Godin and myself, nixon Sylvain. This show is about dialogues of biblical characters and testimonies of Christians who submit it to the will of God. Each week we bring on one guest so that they can share their story of how they were called by God. I hope this show inspires you. Enjoy. Hello and welcome world to the Call by God podcast. I'm your host, brother Nick, and I'm here with my co-host, adne, and we're alongside a special guest. I should not even call her a special guest, she is family. She's been on more than five episodes. There's just too much to count. You just have to go on wwwcallbygodpodcastcom and search her name Sister Kimberly Hernandez. This is going to be a very touching episode, this biblical character in man. I thought about my baby sister because she was victim of what we're about to read and I know there are a lot of women that are been victimized and, to Adne's point, been violated in that way. So we believe that she is a very important character. We didn't want to bypass her because we summarize our Joseph episode and I was like Adne. I think this is going to be the conclusion, this is the conclusion of Genesis and this is going to be the end of it all. Joseph is the last episode, the last biblical character, and Adne is like uh-uh, not so fast. There's one, there's one we got to talk about. We can't forget about this, dear sister, and I think it is important that we can't miss certain characters. As you know, dina or Dina, or how Adne will put it Dina, dina, I like that name, the way it flows Dina. So Dina is the daughter of Jacob. Now we did episodes about Jacob. Y'all got to go back and y'all got to listen to it, but y'all please forgive me, I got to, I got to, I got to give a shout out to Jesus Christ before we start this episode, like I always do. So, first of all, you know, I want to thank our Lord and our Savior for always giving us this opportunity to just share, to share whatever he laid on our heart to the masses, because we're not doing this for any type of gain, to be popular, to be rich, but we're doing it because we want people to be saved and we're just so honored to be used by our Savior Jesus. So we're His vessels, we're His disciples. So I just want to give God the glory for that. So I'm also. I also want to thank all the guests. I said guests, but I always call them guests, like other guests are in here. But anyways, I want to thank all of the ones that listen to our episodes, those that share and like and subscribe, and even if you are like, just you happen to just stumble upon this podcast and you feel that it's not going to be beneficial to you, just forward it to somebody else that you believe that it may benefit. So we're, we're just thankful for even those type of people and obviously, I said on the top of the show, we could be found on wwwcallbygodpodcastcom, our platforms. So, with that being said, I'm not even going to ask for support right now because I just want to just dive into the episode. So Denah, like I alluded to, that name just flows Denah, and Denah is the daughter of the only daughter mentioned in the Bible, especially the account of Jacob. So we know that Jacob had some, he had wives and he had concubines, and this daughter, denah, was the daughter of Leia. Now, when I looked up because you know, I like the meaning and we haven't done this in a while, but the meaning of Denah names me justice, or someone say, justify. So that's kind of like a clear picture of what we, what we may see based on her story, and we're going to do a little breakdown because we like to. We believe that everybody have a purpose and we believe that everybody has a call. So when we read these biblical characters, we believe, you know, one or many people could relate to these biblical, biblical characters. So, as I mentioned on the top of the show, when I read about Denah, I thought about my dear sister, how she was violated, and even some of the masses, some of the women are being violated out there. So I think that, yeah, adne, I thank you so much for bringing awareness to me that, yes, we got to talk about our dear sister Denah. So, with that being said, adne is going to open up in the scriptures and we're just going to have a dialogue.

All right, we're in Genesis 30 and I'm reading from the NLT. It says later she gave birth to a daughter and named her Denah. And then we're going to jump all the way to chapter number 34. And it says one day Denah, the daughter of Jacob and Leah, went to visit some of the young women who lived in the area. But when she when the local prince Shechem, son of Hamer the Hibbet, saw Denah, he seized her and raped her. But then he fell in love with her and he tried to win her affection with tender words. He said to his father Hamar, get me this young girl, I want to marry her.

Wow, okay, so this small passage that you read here, adne said a mouthful and I know you brought importance to her birth because we want to say, you want to make it, let it be known that she was born to Leah. And if, if y'all don't know nothing about Leah, y'all just got to go back and listen to some of the past episodes. I just want to say this Leah, according to scriptures, wasn't the dime piece. The dime piece was the sister. She was the dime piece. So so down, piece, mean pretty, like, fine, beautiful, but but adding, you just said a mouthful. So let's, let's tackle, let's tackle verse number one. Let's let's move methodically through the scriptures. I don't want to just jump into what happened to her. You know, obviously that's the highlight, what like, what, that's in a Bible. All that went down. Let's methodically walk through the scriptures and I want to hear some of the psyche of you women, because the first verse says and this is the NASB version, this is now Denah, the daughter of Leah, whom she had born to Jacob, went out to visit the daughters of the land. She is going somewhere. What are y'all women's thought that? What is she's doing here? Who can explain that?

Sure so. So, nick and Annie, you know I've dev in so many directions because I wanted to just understand not just the meat of this, but I wanted to understand the surrounding. And I'm glad you asked that question, because first I had to look at where she was at, okay, and set them, if I'm pronouncing that right. But this was, his father was a hivite, and so when I started researching it and I was like whoa, wait a minute. Because, like you said, nick, as women we have to be cautious, we have to be aware, alert, and, especially when I'm a woman of God, we move and we seek the spirit of discernment. So, here it is, deny is in a place and, to be honest with you, I went and I researched hivite and it says that the meaning of just these people, it says living a lifestyle that is lived out in the confines of the systems of the world, outside the norm, and then, most importantly, was an in conflict with the kingdom of God. So now, here you are, you are of God's chosen people, but you're in a place that you know is in total conflict to your almighty God. And now you're going out and even and I believe it was either Bible nugget, but it spoke and instead of them saying it, she went out to visit. It says she went out to socialize with them. And so either way, as a woman, if I'm socializing you know how they say birds with feather flock together If I'm socializing with someone, that means that there are some commonalities, okay, that means that there are some agreement, and just like the Bible say, how can two walk together unless they agree? Now we like to, you know, infiltrate that with the connotation of marriage. But then even with our day to day communications and our social circles, as a woman, that struck me because here it is. You are a woman in a place that is infiltrated with people and the very lifestyle is totally against where you come from, what you are, who you are. And now she's gone out amongst these people. So that struck me. I'm not gonna go too far because I don't wanna give out everything, but it struck me that she went amongst those type of people and honestly, I felt like she let her guard down, her spiritual guard down, most informals, because that was not a place where she should have felt comfortable to just mosey about, so to speak.

Okay, so what? I love what Kim just said and I'm gonna take it into our modern world right, as a young woman, we're always curious. We want to know what and why my parents don't want me to do a certain thing. Why won't they let me spend the night at my friend's house? Why won't they let me do X, y and Z? And then your parents said, okay, fine, since you don't wanna listen, go ahead. And then something happens. And then you come back and then you're like okay, mom, okay dad, I get it. I'm always, I always like to bring things back to the parents. I don't know what her parents warned her about before she went and socialized, because Jacob was told some things. Jacob knew you understand what I mean. He knew that he was set apart for God. There's an upbringing, there's spirit, there's God that he's teaching these children. So why in the world would your daughter be so comfortable to leave the realm of God to go and socialize with the people of the world? Christians today, we are in this world, but we're not of this world, right? Why is it that we Christians think it's okay for us to socialize and do the things of the world and not think that there are ramifications and consequences, and that's what I saw in this story. Just the first part is that she went out and visited the young women. What made you want to be so curious to go and see what these young women were doing? Why were you so curious to want to visit these women? What about them made you want to go and visit these women? Right? So again, we weren't there at that time. We don't know what they looked like, we don't know what it was that drew her to them, but something drew her to them and whatever drew her to them, like you said, kim, it took her away from God. It took her away from her protection, her covering. She literally uncovered herself when she went in to socialize with these women, and that's what came to my mind as I was studying and going over her account.

This is why I wanted y'all sisters to go, to give it from a female perspective. So, for me, I have a sister, I have a daughter, so the Bible never mentioned that she was with a group of people. So she's solo, she's riding solo, and on top of that she have a lot of brothers. So why is this woman by herself? That's, that's the thing. So I wanted to highlight that women, there are certain places they should not go by themselves. I don't care what it is, and even if a woman is not saved, this is pertaining to all women. You know, there is just some women. It's just certain territory you cannot go. And I know women get it it's. You know, now we live in an age where people just carry weapons. Oh, like it's like. So we become so gullible. Women per se become so gullible, like as though nothing bad can happen to them. Oh, I got a gun, or I got, I got a knife, or I got some amaze, so if, if, somebody try to violate me in that way, I'm going to be prepared for them. But when these things happen these things happen, happens swiftly you don't even have time to even pull out your weapon because chances are, when you're in somebody else's territory, you now become prey Because women are tend to have an image of being vulnerable. So when, when, when, a, when a male, like, say, a male sees a woman with a man, a man gonna be like, yeah, I'm mess with her cuz, yeah she that that's a bodyguard right there. But when a woman is by herself, now she becomes prey because now it's like she, she's cuz. You know, men by Nate and men are physically stronger than a woman, at least most men I got bodybuilding women. But you know I'm Talking about those women as petite, those women as feminine. I'm not talking about the he, she's, the order she, he's. I'm not talking about the she-woman's, but I'm saying that yes, she is in a foreign land, yes, she come from the lineage of, you know, holy, holy men, abraham, isaac and Jacob and her father, which has a covenant with God. So they are the people of God, so they are the righteousness of God, so she come from that background. So I like how you pointed out at it, because sometimes In in women most women don't like being called a goodie too. She's the church girls. The church girls do become curious Because you may a Sunday school teacher maybe tell her talking to a young lady and say like, look, you know, I've been there and I've done that. I've been violated. Why? Because I did not take heed to why it's counseling. I did not listen to my mom, I did not listen to my dad. And then what? The child and boys do it too. But for the sake of this discussion, I'm talking about girls. Girls become circuitous. Why my parents telling me not to do this? Why my parents telling me not to go there? Why my parents telling me not to have sex before marriage? Why my parents telling me not to go to this friend's house? And then they become so, so, quote-on-quote, feel like they're grown to the point where they feel like they can't even listen to it, like they can't even listen to their parents. Like they said, mom, that you'll know what you're talking about. You're old, you'll know what you're talking about. This is 2023. They don't do stuff like that how they did it back in in your days. So, and that's why I wanted to touch on verse one, because yasas is yad, yad nailed it. I'm just putting pretty much the the cherry on top of which I said, and Because I didn't want to rush through it, because I wanted to bring awareness that there are certain places that women can't go, period, all right. So the next verse, so the next verse, and again we're, we're gonna touch on, you know, just three, four or five verses, all of the verse five. So the next verse says and when sheck him, the son of hey Mar the hivite now, sister Kim did a little breakdown with the hivite, stood for and I think she did a Phenomenal job. And yes, they are the descendants of him. They are because they're in the land of Canaan. So these people do not represent God. Their opposition to God's word, will and way as far as towards his people, because we know that Jacob is the, the promised child there. They're there, they're there. They're the people that have the promise. There's a spiritual people. So it says that hey Mar the hivite. So we talk about two ungodly individuals. Sheikham, the son of hey Mar the hivite, because that is hey Mar, and he's a prince. He have a leadership role. He's the prince of the country. So here's um, I don't want to butcher her name Dina Dina, dina, dina, I got it All right. It says that this individual, sheikham, he saw her first. You know what I say. That dude be saying oh yeah, that's pray. Right there, I got her. Oh yeah, that's all I need to do. See her, he saw her, he took her, he laid with her and he defiled her. I'm gonna read another version and then y'all, ladies, y'all, y'all, could give me a breakdown, because, you know, help help some sisters out there. Another version says and sheikham, the son of hey Mar the hivite, the prince of the land, he saw her, he took her and he laid with her and he raped her. Y'all sisters, break that down.

Rape. What constitutes what constitutes rape? Rape is when a woman tells you no. Rape is when you're in the action and the woman says stop. Rape is when you violate a woman against her wishes. Right, and as we're reading the accounts of Dena, it never once says that she said no and I'm not saying she consented, but it never once said that she screamed out and yelled stop. So, doing deeper and further studies, like I said, curiosity, right. She left her father's house a certain way and now she's another way. She's become a woman because someone saw her beauty, someone saw something about her that they coveted and wanted, and because they coveted her in that way, they took her and they laid with her. The NLT says he seized her and raped her. As a victim of rape myself, it was hard for me to really try and comprehend and understand what was going on, because I remember saying no, no, I don't want to do this. But as I'm reading this, I'm like I never hear her say no. Is that left out on purpose by the writer or was there some consent there on Dena's part? And because of who she is and because of who this person is, she knows they weren't supposed to do stuff like that Because in the eyes of God he's unclean, because he's uncircumcised. In the eyes of her lineage, where she comes from, her brothers were circumcised the eighth day. So why am I going to allow this person, who is uncircumcised, to come and lay with me? And on top of that, he ain't my husband. So those were the things that came that came to my mind. It's like her curiosity. Was she actually raped or was it that she was curious? And here it is. This person saw her and she was like okay, I see you, shaka, you know you looking good, let's go ahead and do the do or whatever. We don't know. But all I know is and I need to make this point clear no means no. Rape means you violate a woman against her wishes, married or not. And I have to say this because married men, if your wife says no, guess what, and you still have sex with her, that's constituted as rape. I pray you understand and know that. Single woman, if you're dating a young man and this is not what you're interested in and he forces you, it's called rape. So understand that you have rights. But what I'm looking at with this young woman is her curiosity brought her into a land of people who had no fear or reverence of God. They didn't even understand the laws of her people, because if he understood, he would not have taken her and violated her in such a way, and that's what the scripture brought out for me, annie, that is.

So I'm almost speechless, because I thank God that there are women of God like yourself who may have encountered this attack, because, while it was done by the flesh, in the flesh, it's an attack on the end of the enemy. And, like you stated and I'm so happy that you stated it, not only for a single woman, but also for a married woman, because it is as unfortunate as it is I have a friend and it's sad because his mom was violated that way and he came about from that type of action, and I thank God that you spoke on that and just like you stated and so I just want to, because I know that this is about Deny but Setchum took something from her that was not his, it was not spiritually given to him, and so I've said this before as far as I'm concerned, he stole from God because she belonged to God, and that's a direct attack on God. And I just want to note that we're focusing on around four, but I had to bring in 19, because sometimes, as women, our judgment is clouded by prominence, by position, title, you know. Oh, he comes from a prestigious family, okay, and so that could very well have been maybe what drew her to even go about those type of people. But 19 it says Setchum wasted no time in acting on his request. Of course, that's further on long when Dina brothers found out what he did, and you know the stipulation that they put on him. We already know how that went, but the Bible says in the latter part of 19 that Setchum was a highly respected member of his family. Okay, and so now we know too often and I, you know, I like for us to keep it in the, in the rams of the Bible. But then I know that we have to deal with the world that we live in, and we know the Me Too movement. Okay, and so many women in different facets of life have been violated in this manner. Okay, and, and, and. The number is just astronomical and it's heartbreaking. But I also wanted to bring in the point that I remember a minister said and I pray to God that every woman that will listen to this episode understands this when you join yourself with someone, it will say that something is taken, but you don't know what they leave behind either. And so, as you stated, adne, it's an act of stealing a woman's innocence, and I want young women to know too, because even if you do have some type of, you know, attraction to a man and I know some women have have stated and regurgitated oh, you know, you wanted that, that's rape. That was not. If you did not, uh, agree to to join yourself in this action, that was rape. And so there's no way for us to justify this, there's no way for us to dress it up. That's what it was and and we know it's as touch every last one of our families, known and unknown. And I just wanted to read I can't remember where I got it from, but it says the hivite spirit. It says their rules suggest that flesh must be gratified first and colonel appetites must be met and fulfilled. So, knowing where Satcham came from and and where they're operating on, and it's a mindset too, that's a mindset he was already defiled and that's why it, almost as sad as it seems, it's not even surprising what he did. It's not surprising what he did. But the sad part is that, as a woman and a godly woman and you're in a place, and one thing I wanted to say, without going too far back, because sometimes you know, I know we're looking at, you know, the city of Satcham and we're looking at what they represented. But in truth and the truth and honesty, even the more that I read, I saw that, just like we, on Nick mentioned, abraham stopped there at the tree of Marah and received God's promise there. Okay, there are so many accounts in scripture that points of Satcham not being a defiled city. There were many things, even the place of commitment, that was what it was known for. And sometimes and when I was reading, rather, and I thought about Denyne and I said, you know what? Because as women, sometimes we can look at a place and we think of that what it once was, but that's not what it is now, and so it brought so much to light for me and reading the scripture and considering the action and the violation of Denyne and to know and I really feel it was an abuse of power. It was an abuse of power and position. And then he went and I prayed that any woman that ever experiences this type of setting be careful to never think that just because someone has a title, has money, has position and power, don't you ever allow someone to steal your innocence and allow that to make you fear justice.

Hey, sister Kim, I thank you for bringing awareness to that. As it relates to Shechem saying that he had a leadership role, he was in a position of power, because I'm the one to believe that some women are gullible, because, as you notice here, he's a prince, he's not an ordinary dude, and so what I mean? That some women are gullible sometimes, and I'm going to explain it Some women tend to gravitate towards things that look pleasing and look nice. So I once had a brother said when you talk about sin, sin is pleasurable but there's consequences to it. So I don't know what enticed her to go see these daughters. I don't know, because sometimes we could be on an outside, look at in and sometimes it may perceive as the world is having fun and it could almost show like the children of God is just boring. So I don't know if there was partying like a rock star, like they did in Sodom and Gomar. So sometimes the eyes I don't know what enticed her to go to that land and go to those group of people. But the thing is, this person of power, like how you said us, sister Kim, he has a leadership role and I think what I mean that some women are gullible because sometimes they could be in a group of ungodly women. I'm talking about gully women being surrounded by ungodly women. And then they may be around people with power, leadership roles, ceos, vice presidents, presidents. They just have power. But in the end, somebody put some in your drink, somebody put a pill in your drink. Now you drink it, now you wake up in the morning. They don't violate you, humiliate you. That's what other versions identified. What happened to Denah? They he violated because and that's why it almost sounds so gruesome he saw her, then he took her and he laid with her Like I'm thinking, my mind is thinking like this dude was probably like forceful, like hey, don't you know who I am? Because you know, when certain dudes have certain power and leadership roles, they demonstrate that, they show that. So I wanted to bring awareness to that that women should not be so gullible and, like you said, sister Kim, have a set of discernment when it comes to one surrounding and even those that they encounter. So I'm going to go ahead and dive into verse number three. In verse number three this is the King James version it says and his soul now we talk about Shechem and his soul, clave. Some other verses would say cling or clunged onto Denah, the daughter of Jacob. So there's two parts to this. His soul clave clung to her and then now, now he said and he loved her, he loved the damsel, and now. So first of all he clung to her, clung to her, and now he loved her and he spayed kindly onto her. So y'all break that down from a women's perspective and I'll come back and say what I believe was going on as a male.

I've always said to people love is a strong word, okay, and you know, we already know what the Bible speaks of, and I believe that we I don't care, webster, oxford, whoever, whatever the only definition that is the true definition of love is what the Bible says love is okay. And so I will not dare question or even try to speak in any way towards the Bible stating that he loved her To me. The first thing came to my mind was how can you love her but you violated her? How do you call that love? And how do you even what about you? Okay would tell you and make you thinking your right mind that now you're going to try to pursue her in the way that you should have pursued her in the beginning, and then, if you pursued her in the proper and respectable manner in the beginning, then none of this would even be. But now you're saying you love her, and then I feel like that was more honestly, reading what the Hivite spirit and what I read earlier, that was a loving lust, because that's what pushed him and that's the spirit that overtakes a man, when you can think that it's okay for you to take a woman against her will and violate her in that manner. And so, nick, just looking at this and the fact that he was out of order, and we know he was out of order, not only out of order by his actions, but even in the way that he did things, what he did to Dinah, and then he had the audacity to go to her father. I mean, well, he went to his father, rather, and see, this is why I spoke on about position, people being in position and having power. Because, like I read and I'm glad that I read that in verse 19, because now, your family respects you, but you're not respectable. You're not respectable. And so when I think, and it really it shakes me as a woman, because here it is, there's a man and you have the ability to do the right thing, but you chose to do the wrong thing, and now you want to move and say, oh well, now I'm gonna take her as my wife. She doesn't wanna be your wife. What do you mean? Take her as your wife? A wife is a help me. You didn't give her, you took her choice and made a decision for her. And so and it's a reality even in our very same world because now she is and I hate to say it like this, because I know people put a negative connotation to damaged goods, but I love what the women have so often through different lady days and say broken crayons still color Because just as God gave Dina excuse me God gave Abraham the promise God will still use her for good, but it still does not negate the pain and the destruction that now he's caused in her.

Even though a lot of men don't even understand and realize who they are in God, who they really are in Christ, because they don't have a relationship with them. That mindset has been embedded in man since the beginning. Because we're reading it here in Genesis, verse three says that he fell in love with her. In the NLT version and you know I'm gonna bring it to modern day Okay, so it says. But then he fell in love with her and tried to win her affection with tender words. So you violate me, you take what's most precious from me and then tell me you want to marry me after taking that one precious gift. And I'm thinking about men today who have this mindset of test driving the car before you purchase it. That's not a new concept, because if we're looking here at Shechem, shechem test drove Dina before saying he wanted to marry her. I've been guilty of being that woman who was test driven and then, like Kim said, it's just, it's a shame.

Wow, I'm trying to find the right words to put together because this is a very, very sensitive discussion, because I'm sure that there's a woman out there right now just listening to your voices and listening to mine and it probably brought them back to that place Like it just replayed back in their mind when it was being violated from a man and you know, boys get violated too. But for the sake of the discussion, we just want to just focus on women and what I thought about, and I'm trying to put it in a way of the way that how most men think, or how I perceive how a man would think, when we think about Abraham, isaac and Jacob, these are the people of God. These are the people that have a relationship with God. These are the people that have a covenant relationship with God. So anything or anyone that falls under that umbrella is blessed. So even though that they may have flaws they have certain ways of them God still look at them as being blessed. And I'm going somewhere with this, because we know that we're human, we're in the kingdom of God, we're not perfect, we sin in far shore of God glory, but God has his hand on the children of Israel. Okay, everybody else. It's excluded. They're not part of God's family. These are the people they worship in other gods. They enter other things beside God. So when we see that Shechem violated the righteous, a child of God, the righteousness of God, the enemy versus one of God's children, what happened is what transpired and what I'm getting out of this. They became one spiritually. So when Shechem did that to deny inadvertently, they became one. And that's the danger of whether or not, if you're getting sex by way of fornication or marital or even rape, those three aspects will make you one with that individual, so just like a married person. Therefore, genesis says in Genesis, chapter 2, therefore, a father, a son, will leave his father and mother house and cleave to his wife and they shall become one flesh. And even in a book of Corinthians talk about being one flesh. It says in 1 Corinthians, chapter 6, verse 15,. It says Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Well, I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute. And it says never Now, this is the English Standard Version. And it says or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, the two shall become one flesh. So when we read about that, you know Shechem desired her is because he became one. He became one flesh with her and this is why we see the attitude change Like man, so now he's looking at like like girl I love you now, I'm digging you now because it's something that transpired spiritually, although confused because that's not real love, that's a lustful act, but because they became one spiritually. And when I, when I look at this and this is what I believe, why God has an issue with this and this is why justice has to take place, because this is a violation of the structure of the family, when it comes to husband and wife, about God's order of things, and when I think about, when I look at this, this is even a violation of the church, and I think about Christ in his bride. These folks be violating, raping, defiling the body of Christ spiritually. Marriage is an honorable thing and we know when we talk about fornication, it's a reason why God want people to do things the right way. They stay away from fornication. Yeah, although we may think of it as fleshy, but it's spiritual rape. Same thing, although it may be something that's defiling, but also you become one of flesh. That's why God says the right way, according to Genesis, is marriage. Just wait until you get married. This concludes part one of the Nas episode, so stay tuned for part two. Be blessed. That's it for now, but before we go, please continue to listen, subscribe, share our podcast. Also, if you want to support our show, please scroll down to the bottom of the show notes and click on the link that says buy me a coffee. We were greatly appreciated. Thank you for listening and remember God is good all the time and all the time God is good and also Jesus Christ loves you. Thank you.